51. I attended the Prayer-Circle where I had some interesting teaching from President Young in social conversation which was not reported. The following is a key to some of the principles he advanced. He referred to the preaching of Orson Pratt & Orson Hyde the sabbath (sp. Sabbath) before upon the subject of the resurrection. He said the identical particles of matter in which we had honored our spirits with, i.e., our tabernacles in which he had suffered, traveled, labored, & built up the kingdom of God, that would be the identical body & no other that would be raised from the grave to immortality & eternal life. Adam & Eve had lived upon another Earth, were immortal when they came here. Adam assisted in forming this earth & agreed to fall when he came here, & he fell that man might be & the opposite principle to good, the devil, the serpent, the evil, was placed upon the earth that man might know the good from the evil, for without an experience in these things man could not know the one from the other. As soon as the devil was on earth he sowed the seeds of death in everything so as soon as they began to eat of the fruit of the earth they received into their system the seeds of mortality & of death so their children were mortal & subject to death, sorrow, pain & wo. Then when they partook of life, joy, ease, & happiness, they would know how to prize it. Father Adam would never cease his labors to redeem his posterity & exalt them to all the glory they were capable of receiving. He did not doubt but that Father Adam knew in the beginning how many of his posterity would receive a Celestial glory & who they were & also a Terrestrial & a Telestial, yet man had his agency to act, choose & refuse good or evil as seemed him good & he would be rewarded according to his works. O. Pratt asks will Adam or any God continue to make worlds, people them, taste of death to redeem them---Answer: I have no doubt but it is his privilege but whether He will do it is a question in my mind. How then can his seed increase to all eternity through the increase of his posterity. Many other remarks were made by the President.
Journal of Wilford Woodruff, CHO, Ms/f/115; May 6, 1855.
52. In my fullest belief, it was the design of the Lord that Adam should partake of the forbidden fruit, and I believe that Adam knew all about it before he came to this earth. I believe there was no other way leading to thrones and dominions only for him to transgress, or take that position which transgression alone could place man in, to descend below all things, that they might ascend to thrones, principalities, and powers; for they could not ascend to that eminence without first descending, nor upon any other principle.
JD 2:302; Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; Discourse by Pres. Brigham Young; June 3, 1855.
53. Not only do the Old and New Testament, and other ancient and modern revelations through the Holy Priesthood assert the fact but mankind of every grade, condition, and religion, whether Christian, Jew, Mohamedan, or Pagan, all believe in leading personages or influences which are the sources of good and evil. One of these is God the Father, Michael or Adam, from whose loins the earth is peopled, and who is now laboring for the redemption of his children. The great captain of evil is Satan, formerly Lucifer, but now a fallen "Son of the Morning" who with his followers are diligently laboring to destroy the works of God by reducing them to a like condition with themselves.
Millennial Star, Vol 17:785-786; Apostle Franklin D. Richards; 1855.
54. Journal of Samual W. Richards, p. 113; March 11, 1856.
Evening with the Regency in the Upper Room of the President's Office, examining the spelling of the New Books in the D. Alphabet. A very serious conversation took place between President B. Young and Orson Pratt upon doctrine. O. P. was directly apposed (sp. opposed) to the President's views and very freely expressed his entire disbelief in them after being told by the President that things were so and so in the name of the Lord. He was firm in the position that the President's word in the name of the Lord, was not the word of the Lord to him. The President did not believe that Orson Pratt would ever be Adam, to learn by experience the facts discussed, but every other, person in the room would be if they lived faithful.
55. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; March 11, 1856.
. . . met with the Regency in the evening. The time was occupied till 10 o'clock writing lessons upon the black board. Then the subject was brought up concerning Adam being made of the dust of the earth, and Elder Orson Pratt pursued a course of stubbornness & unbelief in what President Young said that will destroy him if he does not repent & turn from his evil ways. For when any man crosses the track of a leader in Israel & tries to lead the prophet-- he is no longer led by him but is in danger of falling.
56. JD 3:344; Discourse by Orson Pratt delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City; April 13, 1856.
Our first parents through transgressing the law of God, brought death into the world, but through the death of Jesus Christ, life and immortality were introduced. The one brings into bondage; the other gives us hope of escape, of redemption, that we may come forth with the same kind of body that Adam had before the fall, a body of immortal flesh and bones.
Adam and Eve were immortal, the same as resurrected beings, but previous to their transgression they had no knowledge of good and evil.
After the redemption we will not only have the same kind of bodies that they possessed in the garden of Eden before the fall, but we will have a knowledge of good and evil through our experience.
57. JD 3:319-320; Discourse delivered by President Brigham Young in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; April 20, 1856.
Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.
He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.
Do you not suppose that he was acquainted with his associates who came and helped to make this earth? Yes, they were just as familiar with each other as we are with our children and parents.
*** Yet Enoch had to talk with and teach his people during a period of three hundred and sixty years, before he could get them prepared to enter into their rest, and then he obtained power to translate himself and his people, with the region they inhabited, their houses, gardens, fields, cattle, and all their possessions. He had learned enough from Adam and his associates to know how to handle the elements, and those who would not listen to his teachings were so wicked that they were fit to be destroyed, and he obtained power to take his portion of the earth and move out a little while, where he remains to this day.
58. Journal of Wilford Woodruff, April 20, 1856.
I met with the Presidency & Twelve in the prayer-circle. Brother G. A. Smith spoke in plainness his feelings concerning some principles of Elder O Pratt's wherein he differed from President Young concerning the creation of Adam out of the dust of the Earth & the final consummation of knowledge & many other things. I am afraid when he come to write he will publish in opposition of President Young's views but he promises he would not.
59. JD 4:2; Discourse by President Heber C. Kimball delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City; June 29, 1856.
I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth --- the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted. That Son called twelve men and ordained them to be Apostles, and when he departed the keys of the kingdom were deposited with three of those twelve, viz: Peter, James, and John.
60. Sacred Hymns and Spiritual Songs for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 11th Edition, revised in Liverpool, 1856, by Franklin D. Richards, Apostle; p. 375. See also the 25th edition, 1912.
WE BELIEVE IN OUR GOD
We believe in our God, the Prince of his race,
The archangel Michael, the Ancient of Days
Our own Father Adam, earth's Lord as is plain,
Who'll counsel and fight for His children again.
We believe in His Son, Jesus Christ who in love
To His brothers and sisters came down from above,
To die, to redeem them from death, and to teach
To mortals and spirits the gospel we preach.
MICHAEL IS THE ETERNAL FATHER
Sons of Michael, he approaches!
Rise; the Eternal Father greet;
Bow, ye thousands, low before him;
Minister before his feet;
Hail the Patriarch's reign,
'Stablished now o'er sea and main!
61. J. D. 4:215-216; Discourse by President Brigham Young delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; February 8, 1857.
I desire to pursue some of the ideas that brother Cummings has just laid before you . . . even to the advancement of the Saints at a "snail gallop."
The items that have been advanced are principles of real doctrine, whether you consider them so or not. It is one of the first principles of the doctrine of salvation to become acquainted with our Father and our God. The scriptures teach that this is eternal life, to "know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent;" this is as much as to say that no man can enjoy or be prepared for eternal life without that knowledge.
You hear a great deal of preaching upon this subject; and when people repent of their sins, they will get together, and pray and exhort each other, and try to get the spirit of revelation, try to have God their Father revealed to them, that they may know Him and become acquainted with Him.
62. JD 4:217-219; Discourse by President Brigham Young delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; February 8, 1857.
Thus you may continue and trace the human family back to Adam and Eve, and ask, are we of the same species with Adam and Eve? Yes, every person acknowledges this; this comes within the scope of our understanding.
But when we arrive at that point, a vail (sp. veil) is dropped, and our knowledge is cut off. Were it not so, you could trace back your history to the Father of our spirits in the eternal world. He is a being of the same species as ourselves; He lives as we do, except the difference that we are earthly, and He is heavenly. He has been earthly, and is of precisely the same species of being that we are. Whether Adam is the personage that we should consider our heavenly Father, or not, is considerable of a mystery to a good many. I do not care for one moment how that is; it is no matter whether we are to consider Him our God, or whether His Father, or His Grandfather, for in either case we are of one species---of one family---and Jesus Christ is also of our species. *** Now to the facts in the case; all the difference between Jesus Christ and any other man that ever lived on the earth, from the days of Adam until now, is simply this, the Father, after He had once been in the flesh, and lived as we live, obtained His exaltation, attained to thrones, gained the ascendancy over principalities and powers, and had the knowledge and power to create---to bring forth and organize the elements upon natural principles. This He did after His ascension, or His glory, or His eternity, and was actually classed with the Gods, with the beings who create, with those who have kept the celestial law while in the flesh, and again obtained their bodies. Then He was prepared to commence the work of creation, as the scriptures teach. It is all here in the Bible; I am not telling you a word but what is contained in that book.
Things were first created spiritually; the Father actually begat the spirits, and they were brought forth and lived with Him. Then He commenced the work of creating earthly tabernacles, precisely as He had been created in this flesh himself, by partaking of the course material that was organized and composed this earth, until His system was charged with it, consequently the tabernacles of His children were organized from the course materials of this earth.
When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me. And a difference there is between our Father and us consists in that He has gained His exaltation, and has obtained eternal lives.
63. JD 4:248; Discourse by Heber C. Kimball; Salt Lake City; March 1, 1857.
Are you ever going to be prepared to see God, Jesus Christ, His angels, or comprehend His servants, unless you take a faithful and prayerful course? Did you actually know Joseph Smith? No. Do you know brother Brigham? No. Do you know brother Heber? No, you do not. Do you know the Twelve? You do not, if you did, you would begin to know God, and learn that those men who are chosen to direct and counsel you are near kindred to God and to Jesus Christ, for the keys, power, and authority of the kingdom of God are in that lineage.
64. JD 4:271; Brigham Young; Salt Lake City; March 8, 1857.
If you look at things spiritually, and then naturally, and see how they appear together, you will understand that when you have the privilege of commencing the work that Adam commenced on this earth, you will have all your children come and report to you of their sayings and acts; and you will hold every son and daughter of yours responsible when you get the privilege of being an Adam on earth.
65. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; March 8, 1857.
I attended the prayer meeting in the evening. President Young had O Pratt's pamphlet read called The Holy Spirit, & he made the following remarks after hearing it read: He said that Brother Pratt had got beyond the stars. He had corralled them & got beyond them.
66. JD 4:266-267; President Brigham Young, delivered in Great Salt Lake; March 8, 1857.
With all the knowledge and wisdom that are combined in the person of brother Orson Pratt, still he does not yet know enough to keep his foot out of it, but drowns himself in his own philosophy, every time that he undertakes to treat upon principles that he does not understand. When he was about to leave here for his present mission, he made a solemn promise that he would not meddle with principles which he did not fully understand, but would confine himself to the first principles of the doctrine of salvation, such as were preached by brother Joseph Smith and the Apostles. But the first that we see in his writings, he is dabbling with things that he does not understand; his vain philosophy is no criterion or guide for the Saints in doctrine.
67. Journal of Heber C. Kimball, 20:17. Deseret News, March 11, 1857.
The Lord told me that Jesus Christ was the son of Adam.
68. JD 5:331-332; President Brigham Young in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake; Wednesday afternoon, October 7, 1857.
Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, 'I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;' and after awhile you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, 'Here; you have been faithful, good boys' I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass.' Then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam.
69. JD 6:31; President Heber C. Kimball, delivered in the Salt Lake Tabernacle; Sunday morning, November 8, 1857.
Now, brethren, you have got a spirit in you, and that spirit was created and organized---was born and begotten by our Father and our God before we ever took these bodies; and these bodies were formed by him, and through him, and of him, just as much as the spirit was; for I will tell you, he commenced and brought forth spirits; and then, when he completed that work, he commenced and brought forth tabernacles for those spirits to dwell in. I came through him, both spirit and body.
70. JD 6:145; Discourse by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City; December 27, 1857.
Before the gospel revealed the introduction of sin to this planet, it was a great marvel even to the most learned, and they would ask, "Why was it so?-- is it not strange?" and would rest with the expression, "It was suffered to be so." While reasoning or familiarly conversing with one another, let the question be asked, "Why was Eve suffered to partake of the forbidden fruit?" and the invariable reply was, "I cannot answer that question: it seems that it was so, and it appears to be a great pity." That is all the knowledge there is in the world on that point. The starting point they have not learned, that no intelligent being could be exalted with the Gods without being subjected to the temptation of sin, that he might know and understand the power of the adversary, the opposite to goodness; for it is written that "there must needs be an opposition in all things." The world have not yet learned that simple truth.
71. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Ms/f/115, Church Historical Department; March 24, 1858.
The Presidency and Twelve met in council at the office. Meeting opened by prayer by O. Hyde. I presented before the meeting the case of O. Pratt who did not believe in some of the teachings of President Young and thought President Young had reproved him unjustly. The subject was discussed at length by the Twelve and President Young. Much instruction was given at the close. Orson Pratt confessed his faults and said that he would never teach those principles again or speak them to any person on the earth. We all forgave him and voted to receive him into full fellowship.
72. JD 7:163; Brigham Young; Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; June 5, 1859.
The blood he (Christ) spilled upon Mount Calvary he did not receive again into his veins. That was poured out, and when he was resurrected, another element took the place of the blood. It will be so with every person who receives a resurrection: the blood will not be resurrected with the body, being designed only to sustain the life of the present organization. When this is dissolved, and we again obtain our bodies by the power of the resurrection, that which we now call the life of the body, and which is formed from the food we eat and the water we drink, will be supplanted by another element; for flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
73. JD 7:285-290; Brigham Young, delivered in Salt Lake Tabernacle; October 9, 1859.
Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, when you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobes from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. . . . Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.
74. Brigham Young Diary; Great Salt Lake City; Wednesday, January 25, 1860.
. . . Prest Heber C. Kimball had a conversation with the President as to the propriety of calling the Quorum of the Twelve together for the purpose of considering some points of doctrine, on Friday evening at this office.
75. Brigham Young (office) Diary; Great Salt Lake City; Thursday January 26, 1860.
Pres. Young observed to W. C. Staines he had read an article of this weeks 'Valley Tan' Jan. 25. 1860. which branded the whole Mormon Hierarchy as murders. and observed the Pres. I wonder how the brethren submit to be tamely insulted by the Editor of the Tan Mr. DeWolf. In course o- the day Bro W. C. Staines informed us he had seen De Wolf, and told him, he would kick his arse [horse] and cow hide him if he ever inserted another article against this people; W. C. Staines then cursed him in the name of Jesus Christ and said he should have the spirit of fear upon him during this life, and after death, he then (34) sealed the curse upon him, in the name of Jesus Christ. DeWolf wanted to apologize but Mr. Staines told him he could hear of none he had insulted a whole people, and he would yet know Mormonism was true. Mr. De Wolf turned very pale. Mr. Staines left also informed he would purchase a paper and shew it to every good Mormon of his acquaintance Mr. Staines then left Mr. De Wolf to his reflections.
Pres Young rode out and returned in a few hours afterwards; and sent a messenger to Enquire after the health of Prest Wells; who went and ascertained he was rather better; but not sufficiently recovered to safely come out the following day.
76. Church Historian's Office Journal; Friday, January 27, 1860.
. . . At 6 p.m. The Presidency & Prests of Seventies & Twelve met in council at Prest. Young's Office. A sermon written to be published, by Orson Pratt, was read and rejected as false doctrine Elder Pratt advocates the doctrine of worshipping an attribute instead of God, The Author and dispenser of those attributes. The night was spent in speaking on doctrinal points until 12 o'clock.
77. Brigham Young (Office) Journal; Great Salt Lake City; Friday, January 27th 1860.
Bro. Wm Wordsworth had some conversation with the Pres. in relation to selling him his property in the 14th Ward.
Bro. W. C. Staines called in and recapitulated to the President the corrective course he took with t-h-e- De Wolf the Editor of the "Valley Tan". his remarks are in yesterdays minutes.
Bro Cyrus Wheelock remarked to the Pres. that Father Humphrey had left for California also had some conversation with the Pres. about the jealous feelings that exist among men. Pres. remarked many of our feelings would be removed if we were to associate more together; and if that course did not remove them immediately; continue to do so, and perhaps it would; any how matters would end right with the faithful Prest observed to Bro C Wheelock, he did not feel that Aaron Johnson had any feelings to him (35) Pres. also remarked if Joseph Smith the beloved Prophet was here. he would say that Aaron Johnson, was a thorough good man, and one of the best men who had stood by him. Pres further observed that one great cause of contention arose out of idleness, if men would work all day they would be tired at night lay down and rest, and have no cause nor time for contention
In the evening a Council of the twelve was held to consider the doctrines that Orson Pratt had advanced in his last Sermon about worshipping attributes. The President and the twelve came to the conclusion that Orson Pratt was wrong on that point. Bro G.D. Watt reported the whole of the remarks.
January 27, 1860, Elder Wilford Woodruff recorded the minutes
of a meeting which was held by the First Presidency and Quorum
of the Twelve in which they met to discuss some of the doctrines
which were being taught by Orson Pratt. This journal entry of
Elder Woodruff quotes President Young as saying that Adam came
to this earth as a resurrected being.
Michael was a resurrected Being and he left Eloheim and came to this earth & with an immortal body, & continued so till he par took of earthly food and begot children who were mortal.
79. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Church Historical Department Ms/f/115; January 28, 1860.
I spent the day in the office. I met with the Twelve in the prayer circle. Orson Pratt met with us, he did not dress, but said he wanted to be in the society of the Twelve. He seemed much more soft in his spirit than he had been.
80. Brigham Young (Office) Diary; Great Salt Lake City; Saturday January 28th 1860.
Prest Joseph Young called in and conversed with his brethren Prest B. Young about the last evenings proceedings.
Elder Orson Pratt called upon the President in relation to last evenings proceedings, Bro Orson admitted he was excited; and for the future would omit such points of doctrine in his discourses that related to the Plurality of Gods. &c but would confine himself to the first principles of the Gospel Bro Orson also asked the President if he had a vacancy for his son Orson as a Clerk The President observed he would endeavor to appoint him as a teacher; as he meant to promote education as much as possible
The President remarked to Bro Orson that much false doctrine arose out of arguing upon false premises, such as supposing something that does not exist, as a God without his attributes, as they cannot exist apart. Bro Orson replied "that many of his (36) doctrinal arguments had been advanced while he was in England in answer to the numerous enquiries that were made of him by reasoning men. The President remarked when questions have been put to me, by opposers, who did not want to hear the simple Gospel Message. he would not answer them and asked Orson why he was not as careful to observe the revelations given to preach in plainness and simplicity as to so strenuously observe the doctrines in other revelations.
81. Deseret News, Vol 9, No 51; Remarks by Elder Orson Pratt, Tabernacle, Jan. 29, 1860.
* * * There are some points of doctrine which I have, unfortunately, thrown out before the people. At the time I expressed those views, I did most sincerely believe that they were in accordance with the word of God. I did most sincerely suppose that I was justifying the truth. But I have since learned from my brethren, that some of the doctrines I had advanced in the "Seer," at Washington were incorrect. Naturally being of a stubborn disposition and having a kind of a self will about me; and moreover supposing really and sincerely that I did understand what true doctrine was in relation to those points, I did not feel to yield to the judgment of my brethren, but believed they were in error. Now, was this right? No, it was not. Why? Because the Priesthood is the highest and only legitimate authority in the Church, in these matters. * * *
"But," inquires one, "have you not felt anxious that the Church should follow your ideas as laid down in the Seer?" I have not; if I had, I should have preached them; I should have tried to reason with you to convince you of their apparent truth. * * *
God placed Joseph Smith at the head of this church. God has likewise placed Brigham Young at the head of this church; . . . . We are commanded to give heed to their words in all things, and receive their words as from the mouth of God, in all patience and faith. When we do not do this, we get into darkness. * * *
82. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Ms/f/115, Church Historical Department; January 29, 1860.
Sunday I met at the Tabernacle. Orson Pratt was in the stand and quite unexpected to his Brethren he arose before his Brethren and made a very humble, full confession before the whole assembly for his opposition to President Young and his Brethren, and he said he wished all the Church was present to hear it. He quoted Joseph Smith's revelation to prove that President Brigham Young was right and that all was under obligation to follow the leader of the Church. I never heard Orson Pratt speak better or more to the satisfaction of the people, than on this occasion. He would not partake of the sacrament until he had made a confession then he partook of it.
83. Brigham Young (Office) Diary, Great Salt Lake City; Tuesday, Jan 31st 1860.
John L. Smith called and stated he was nearly cured of his Rheumatism, and said the means he used were as follows. 1/2 ox. sulphate of Zinc; 1 dram of opium. mixed in a pint of water, and wash the part affected. he also stated this remedy was good for erysipelas he knew a woman that was cured by this remedy.
Elder Orson Pratt called upon the President in regard to the acknowledgements (sp. acknowledgments) he had made on Sunday in the Tabernacle. and also made a personal acknowledgement (sp. acknowledgment) to the President admitting he had a self willed determination in him; The President said he had never differed with him only on points of doctrine, and he never had had any personal feelings, but he was anxious that correct doctrines should be taught for the benefit of the Church and the Nations of the earth. Prest said in one thing he had felt vexed that he did not consult them before he published the M.S. writings he got from Mother Smith. about the life of the Prophet. Orson admitted that he had done wrong and he now saw it but did not at the time of his purchasing and publishing it. President observed the brethren would have made it a matter of fellowship. The President said he did not have it in his heart to disfellowship but merely to correct men in their views. Prest also remarked to Orson he had been willing to go on a Mission to any place at the drop of the Hat, and observed you might as well question my authority to send you on a Mission as to dispute my views in doctrine; Bro Orson said he had never felt unwillingness in the discharge of his practical duties.
84. INSTRUCTIONS TO THE SAINTS; See also Messages of the First Presidency, Vol II, p. 222-223.
On the 26th of January, in the Tabernacle, Elder Orson Pratt, Sen., addressed the Saints; and, through an oversight, a portion of his remarks was printed in Vol. IX. No. 51. of The Deseret News, previous to being carefully revised. Since then those remarks have been examined by br. Pratt and the Council, and are now printed as agreed upon by them, as follows:-
(Here insert said "Remarks,")
With regard to the quotations and comments in The Seer as to Adam's having been formed "out of the ground," and "from the dust of the ground," &c., it is deemed wisest to let that subject remain without further explanation at present, for it is written that we are to receive "line upon line," according to our faith and capacities, and the circumstances attending our progress. Click here for more context on the Orson Pratt vs Brigham Young, progression of god controversy.xxx
85. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; Ms/f/115, Church Historian's Office; March 4, 1860.
President Young said, I corrected O Pratt today. I did not say to him that God would increase to all eternity. But I said the moment that we say that God knows all things comprehends all things and has a fulness of all that he ever will attain, that moment eternity ceases. You put bounds to eternity, space & matter and you make an end and stopping place to it. The people or many say they cannot understand the things. This is true. No man can understand the things of eternity. And Brother Pratt and all men should let the matter of the gods alone. I do not understand these things. Neither does any man in the flesh and we should let them alone.
86. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; April 4, 1860.
I attended a Council of the Presidency and Twelve at the Historians Office in the evening upon the subject of the sermon of Orson Pratt. The sermon was read & the time was occupied till half past 11 o'clock in discussing the subject. President Young was the only one of the Presidency who were present. * * * President Young made many remarks concerning doctrinal points & the situation of Orson Pratt who seemed very dark in his mind upon many points of doctrine. President Young wished the matter to be settled before the Quorum of the Twelve and not go before the conference. After spending several hours in investigating the subject it was decided for the Twelve to meet in the morning in prayer and fasting and seek the business among ourselves.
87. Minutes of Meeting, at Historian's Office; Great Salt Lake City; 7 P.M. April 4, 1860.
Present - Brigham Young, Orson Hyde, Orson Pratt, John Taylor, Geo. A. Smith, Wilford Woodruff, E. T. Benson, F. D. Richards. Ed. Hunter. T.B. G.D.W. J.A.S. R.B. R.L.C.
B.Y. Bro. O. Pratt, has Bro Benson spoken to you about that for which we have met to night No. Well it is this bro. Orson. Your late sermon had like to got into the paper, I want to get an understanding of your views, and see if we see things aright perhaps if I could see it as you Orson does perhaps its all that I could ask, but if not we want to have the matter talked over and laid before the Conference in a manner that we all see eye to eye
* * *
O.P. . . . If I could get rid of those things which have lingered upon my mind & which I have believed it to be true. The Bre[thren] are at liberty to publish anything that they see proper or at conference.
I would like to enumerate items, firstly - preached & publish, that Adam is the fa[ther] of our spirits, & father of Spirit & father of our bodies - When I read the Rev given to Joseph I read directly the opposite - Lord spake to Adam, which w Man eventually became Adam's
(3 blank lines)
B.Y. Your statements to night, You come out to night & place them as charges, & have as many against me as I have you. One thing I have thought that I might still have omitted. It was Joseph's doctrine that Adam was God &c When in Luke Johnson's at O. Hydes the power came upon us, or shock that alarmed the neighborhood. God comes to earth & eats & partakes of fruit. Joseph could not reveal what was revealed to him, & if Joseph had it revealed, he was not told to reveal it. The Spirit is sent when the mother feels earth, God put it into his mouth, & when God, to translate he had the power. Not a contradictory thing in what I have said
Bro. Pratt had the Spirit of God like as all in Pottawatomie & believed when the Revel was given to us.
Bro Brigham, said could a being in a telestial or terrestrial kingdom keep a celestial law, is it reasonable to expect such a thing.
Orson, it is for you to call the 12 together & do as I have suggested or do as you please. It will be brought before Conference and you will be voted as a false teacher, & your false doctrines discharged. I love your integrity, but your ignorance is as great as any philosophers ought to be.
* * *
G.A. Smith moved that these items come before the Conference Most of the 12 wished to have it laid before the 12 & not go before the Conference.
Bro Brigham, wished the Twelve to take hold & pray with Bro. Orson & have a good flow of the Spirit, & it will go off smooth
* * *
11-30 p.m. Prest B. Young, prayed he prayed for Orson Pratt, & prayed feelingly * * *
88. Minutes of the Meeting of the Council of the Twelve in Historian's upper room; Great Salt Lake City; April 5. 1860 10 a.m.
Present Elders O. Hyde, O. Pratt, J. Taylor, W. Woodruff, G.A. Smith, C.C. Rich, F.D. Richards.
O. Hyde . . . To acknowledge that this is the Kingdom of God, and that there is a presiding power, and to admit that he can advance incorrect doctrine, is to lay the ax at the root of the tree Will He suffer his mouthpiece to go into error? No. He would remove him, and place another there. bro. Brigham may err in the price of a horse, or a House and lot, but in the revelations from God, where is the man that has given thus saith the Lord when it was not so? I cannot find one instance.
* * *
O. Hyde Who is our Heavenly Father. I would as soon it was Father Adam, or any other good and lawful being. I shall see him some time, if I do right. What do I know about Adam, in the Councils of the Great God before he came here, or his privileges. I dont know.
* * *
O. Pratt I do not see how I can mend the matter, one way or the other. I think the brethren are laboring under a wrong impression, in all of my writings on doctrine, I have tried to confine myself within revelation. I do not remember one item that I consider new, many of the exceptions what I made last night, are not in writing. On my subject of pre-existence, I have quoted largely from Genesis and the Book of Abraham, I have give it, how Adam and Eve came here and took bodies of flesh and bones, the doctrine was in the Church when I came into it, and I have always rejoiced in it, in regard to Adam being our Father and our God, I have not published it, altho' I frankly say, I have no confidence in it, altho advanced by bro. Kimball in the stand, and afterwards approved by bro. Brigham. . . . One [revelation] says Adam was formed out of the Earth, and the Lord put in his spirit; and another that he came with his body, flesh and bones, thus there are two contrary revelations - in the garden it is said, that a voice said to Adam, in the meridian of time, I will send my only begotten son Jesus Christ. then how can that man and Adam both be the Father of Jesus Christ?
* * *
O. Hyde When there is a want of union, it requires us to speak plain, bro. Pratt does not claim any vision or revelation, but keeps within the scope of Joseph's revelations. The Universalians have their belief, The Presbyterians do the same, they consider they believe they are in the pale of revealed religion. all the Sects do the same, yet how widely they differ, then here comes a man (B.Y.) who says he has a revelation, but it means the sects, if is Antagonistic. I see no necessity of rejecting Joseph's revelations, or going to War with the living ones, that is the nearest to us. bro. Pratt is like the Jews, who garnish the sepulchers of the dead, but reject those that were the nearest to them. I do not see any contradiction or opposition between B. Young & J. Smith.
* * *
O. Pratt it was the Father of Jesus Christ that was talking to Adam in the garden - B. Young says that Adam was the Father of Jesus Christ, both of his Spirit and Body, in his teachings from the stand, bro. Richards publishes in the Pearl of Great Price, that another person would come in the meridian of time, which was Jesus Christ.
O. Hyde David in spirit called Jesus Christ, Lord, how then is he his Son? it would seem a contradiction, I went to Joseph and told him my ideas of the Omnipresence of the Spirit, he said it was very pretty, and it was got up very nice, and is a beautiful doctrine, but it only lacks one thing, I enquired what is it bro Joseph, he replied it is not true.
J. Taylor spoke again "if Christ is the first fruits of them that slept" there must be some discrepancy, he must have resumed his position, having a legitimate claim to a possession some where else, he ought not to be debarred from his rights. the power of God was sufficient to resuscitate Jesus immediately, and also the body of Adam.
* * *
O. Pratt I have heard brother Brigham say that Adam is the Father of our Spirits, and he came here with his resurrected body, to fall for his own children; and I said to him, it leads to an endless number of falls, which leads to sorrow and death: that is revolting to my feelings, even if it were not sustained by revelation.
E. Snow Is there any revelation saying that the body of Adam should return to the dust of this Earth?
O. Pratt if you bring Adam as a Spirit, and put him into the tabernacle, runs easy with me; another item, I heard brother Young say that Jesus had a body, flesh and bones, before he came, he was born of the Virgin Mary, it was so contrary to every revelation given.
89. Brigham Young Journal? Prest Young and the Twelve met in the Historians office 8 p m of April 5 1860.
B.Y. this day I have seen the best spirit manifested I have heard 15 or 16 men all running in the same stream I was delighted Tomorrow the Church will be 30 years old about the age that Jesus was when he commenced his mission
We are improving and I just know it, my path is like the noon day sun, and I could cry out hallelujah! hallelujah! Praise to God who has been merciful to us and conferred on us His Holy Spirit A private member in this church is brighter than the power of Kings and Princes of the world. to secure an eternal existence the wicked have to be blotted out of existence & the greatest gift is to have eternal existence for ever written in the Lamb's book of life
bro Orson (Pratt) I want you to do just as you have done in your Apostleship, but when you want to teach new doctrine, to write those ideas, and submit them to me, and if they are correct, I will tell you - there is not a man's sermons that I like to read, when you understand your subject - but you are not perfect, neither am I.
90. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; April 5, 1860.
The Quorum of the Twelve met this morning in the prayer room. We talked the matter over concerning Brother Pratt. Dressed and prayed. Read over his sermon and corrected it, and the Twelve voted to receive the confession of Orson Pratt.
91. JD 8:243-244; President Heber C. Kimball delivered at Willow Creek; June 12, 1860.
We often sing, "This earth was once a garden place," where God our Father dwelt, and took possession and a stand that mankind will take who attain to that honour. . . . When he (Adam) planted the garden, he planted it with seeds he brought with him; and he also brought the animals from the earth he lived upon, where his Father dwelt.
92. Deseret News; Brigham Young; June 27, 1860.
And I will say, as I have said before, if guilt before my God and my brethren rests upon me in the least, it is in this one thing, that I have revealed too much concerning God and his kingdom, and the designs of our Father in heaven. If my skirts are stained in the least with wrong, it is because I have been too free in telling who God is, how he lives, the nature of his providences and designs in creating the world, in bringing the human family on the earth, his designs concerning them, etc. If I had, like Paul, said --- "But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant," perhaps it would have been better for the people.
93. Deseret News; Orson Pratt; July 25, 1860. (See also Feb 22, 1860 and Jan 29, 1860.
At the time I expressed these views, I did most sincerely believe that they were in accordance with the word of God. I did most sincerely suppose that I was justifying the truth. But I have since learned from my brethren that some of the doctrines I had advanced in The Seer at Washington were incorrect. Naturally being of a stubborn disposition and having a kind of self-will about me; and moreover supposing really and sincerely that I did understand what true doctrine was in relation to those points, I did not feel to yield to the judgment of my brethren, but believed they were in error.
I do not know that I shall be able to carry out these views; but these are my present determinations. I pray that I may have the grace and strength to perform this. I feel exceedingly weak in regard to these matters.
94. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; September 4, 1860.
Brother Cannon said there was a learned Doctor that wanted to be baptized. . . . He (the doctor) is satisfied that the doctrine of the plurality of God and that Adam is our Father is a true doctrine revealed from God to Joseph & Brigham. For this same doctrine is taught in some of the old Jewish records which have never been in print and I know Joseph Smith nor Brigham Young have had access to, and the Lord has revealed this doctrine unto them or they could not have taught it. President Young said if all that God had revealed was in fine print it would more than fill this room but very little is written or printed which the Lord has revealed.
95. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; September 9, 1860.
* * *
President Young then spoke to Orson Pratt & said that the book debt was the worst trouble the saints had to contend with for 6 years. Orson Pratt has done more to make that debt than any other man. So many books are forced upon the people, and they are forced to take them or they will not be fellowshipped. Now stop publishing & getting your portraits taken & fill the kingdom with them & make the people pay for them, this keeps the people poor and keep them from emigrating. * * *
96. Journal of Wilford Woodruff; September 23, 1860.
. . . we repaired to the prayer room where we had a very interesting meeting. The subject of Orson Pratt came up again concerning his false doctrines. President Kimball wished him to make satisfaction to President Young. But President Young said he did not wish him to make any acknowledgement (sp. acknowledgment) to him. Brother Pratt was strangely constituted, he had acquired a great deal of knowledge upon many things but in other things he was one of the most ignorant men he ever saw in his life. He was full of integrity & would lie down & have his head cut off for me or his religion if necessary but he will never see his error until he goes into the spirit world. Then he will say, Brother Brigham, how foolish I was. Now Brother Pratt thinks that he and all the Gods will be learning for many millions of years but by & by will know all things & all will know it alike & that will be the end of their exaltations & knowledge. He cannot see the folly of forming this opinion here in the flesh & in his ignorance. But a thousand years hence he will see the folly of it. I will hold on to Brother Pratt and all those my Brethren of the Twelve notwithstanding all their sins, folly & weaknesses until I meet with them in my Fathers Kingdom, to part no more because they love God and are full of integrity. Brother Pratt said I do not believe as Brother Brigham & Brother Kimball do in some points of doctrine & they do not wish me to acknowledge to others that I do not believe. Brother Brigham said No, you cannot see the truth in this matter until you get into the spirit world.
97. JD 8:208; President Brigham Young delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City; October 14, 1860.
Many of the sisters grieve because they are not blessed with offspring. You will see the time when you will have millions of children around you. If you are faithful to your covenants, you will become mothers of nations. You will become Eves to earths like this; and when you have assisted in peopling one earth there are millions of earths still in the course of creation.
98. A Mormon Chronicle--The Diaries of John D. Lee, Vol. I:293; Sunday, February 3rd, 1861.
* * * Eving (sp. Evening) I attendd (sp. attended) Prayer meeting & instruct the Saints on the points of Doctrine refered (sp. referred) to by the true Latter-day Saints Herald & their Bombarding Pres. B. Young for saying that Adam is all the God that we have to do with & those that know no better, it is quite a stumbling Block & all Enimies (sp. Enemies) to the cause,
99. Brigham Young Papers; Ms/d/1234/Bx 49/fd 8, Church Historical Department. Unpublished discourse of Brigham Young given in the Salt Lake City Tabernacle, October 8th, 1861, in the morning session.
I will give you a few words doctrine, upon which there has been much inquiry, and with regard to which considerable ignorance exists. Brother Watt will write it, but it is not my intention to have it published; therefore pay good attention, and store it up in your memories.
Some years ago, I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God. That will be a curse to many of the Elders of Israel, because of their folly with regard to it. They yet grovel in darkness--and will. It is one of the most glorious revelations [concerning] the economy of heaven, yet the world hold it [in] derision.
Had I revealed the doctrine of Baptism for the Dead instead of Joseph Smith, there are men around me [right now] who would have ridiculed the idea until dooms day. But they are ignorant and stupid like the dumb ass.
100. "A Few Words of Doctrine"; Brigham Young; Ms/d/1234/Bx 49/fd 8; an unpublished discourse given in the Tabernacle in Great Salt Lake City, October 8th, 1861, in the A.M.
Let me say one thing to the young girls, and what I shall tell you I wish you to ponder in your hearts. Say nothing about it, for the wicked world has no business with these things, nor half-hearted Mormons. If there is any[one] here who will not make a good use of what they hear, the evil shall be up[on] themselves.
I wish to say to my young sisters, if you can go into the hands of a man, that will lead you into the Kingdom of Heaven, and exalt you there to become an Eve--a Queen of Heaven--the wife of a God; if you can remain with that man [in] whom your soul delights, and you take to him your virginity, you have obtained a treasure that millions of worlds like this [one] could not buy from you--there is your glory to all eternity.
Trifle with this matter, and you will reap sorrow and sore affliction. When you make your choice of a husband for time and eternity, and you are sure you have got your choice, hang on to him. . . .
[The table that is linked here was originally at the top, but due it's all caps nature, not being easy on the eyes, I put it on a separate page.]
I have recently had a very forceful Epiphany, a major paradigm shift, yea even a transient change of heart! See Disclaimer.
Correspondence regarding this page should be sent to email@example.com
Or if that does not work, try this mail form.
All opinions are mine and mine alone,
and represent my thinking at this point in time,
(subject to change based on better information).
All original writings of mine are just that, to reproduce, forward or use, parts or whole, you need to get permission from me first.
Spellings constructed for effect and to confound the ridged. ;)
©1996 by Perry L. Porter. All copyrights are maintained by any parties (individual or corporate) which may have originally created any of the information or artwork contained herein. If you see your work, and I've mistakenly not given you or your company credit, please E-mail me, I'll gladly add the appropriate credit, if you feel it's necessary.
firstname.lastname@example.org Or web based: (E-Mail)
Direct links to individual quotes by number, i.e. if you want to link to a specific quote, you can use below as a guide.
[This web page, ag2.html]
The following numbers are reserved for future quotes.
If you have one that is not listed, summit it to: